How conservative are you?
A provoking post. Feel free to get provoked
In my opinion, conservatives are those who frequently repeat statements such as:
الله لا يغير علينا
They’re those who use some sort of وازع to defend their arguments. It’s their shield protecting their brains from changing opinions, interests, habits, religion, dress code, and experiences.
To be conservative is to be limited.
You’d think: “I don’t do this because I’m told it’s 3aib”
You’d judge quickly because: “Quran /Bible/ Marx says this isn’t acceptable”
You’d refuse to listen because you have tons of biases. (we all have biases, but them conservatives have plenty)
To be conservative is to create even more boundaries between you, and the world!
To be conservative is to be afraid!
Wait a minute…
I’m not generalizing.
You can be conservative in one aspect, and completely open in the other.
For example, I can be conservative about my clothes. I always wear pants coz I have fat legs. I am afraid of showing my legs to the world and have it judge me. But I’m not conservative about the type of music I listen to. I listen to everything from heavy metal, to habban.
I do not, however, judge those who do NOT wear pants.
I have finally created a comfortable balance between my conservative tendencies (believe me, they’re very much limited) and my crazy side.
Yet what I HATE the most, are when others (yes others are conservative) force their opinions down your throat!
When someone is so conservative, he/she can’t bare that someone else has a contradicting thought.
To be conservative is to think that what you know, is the truth.
No one knows the truth.
PS>This post is not based on any scientific foundation nor research. It is merely personal observations, combined with deductive logic and lots of araf 3ala Sinicism.
A provoking post. Feel free to get provoked
In my opinion, conservatives are those who frequently repeat statements such as:
الله لا يغير علينا
They’re those who use some sort of وازع to defend their arguments. It’s their shield protecting their brains from changing opinions, interests, habits, religion, dress code, and experiences.
To be conservative is to be limited.
You’d think: “I don’t do this because I’m told it’s 3aib”
You’d judge quickly because: “Quran /Bible/ Marx says this isn’t acceptable”
You’d refuse to listen because you have tons of biases. (we all have biases, but them conservatives have plenty)
To be conservative is to create even more boundaries between you, and the world!
To be conservative is to be afraid!
Wait a minute…
I’m not generalizing.
You can be conservative in one aspect, and completely open in the other.
For example, I can be conservative about my clothes. I always wear pants coz I have fat legs. I am afraid of showing my legs to the world and have it judge me. But I’m not conservative about the type of music I listen to. I listen to everything from heavy metal, to habban.
I do not, however, judge those who do NOT wear pants.
I have finally created a comfortable balance between my conservative tendencies (believe me, they’re very much limited) and my crazy side.
Yet what I HATE the most, are when others (yes others are conservative) force their opinions down your throat!
When someone is so conservative, he/she can’t bare that someone else has a contradicting thought.
To be conservative is to think that what you know, is the truth.
No one knows the truth.
PS>This post is not based on any scientific foundation nor research. It is merely personal observations, combined with deductive logic and lots of araf 3ala Sinicism.
54 comments:
Gowa,
Wassup girl, its been a while ;)
check this out:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire
You have to tell us where are you when u done. Take it now ;)
later I will comment on ur topic.
Phizo,
hahahah perfect questionnaire and perfect timing. Although it was a bit long, this is my score lol:
Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.69
Thank you and waiting for your comments 3ad
ALL YOU GUYS SHOULD TAKE THIS QUESTIONNAIRE
Madri.
I sure am leading a relatively conservative lifestyle.
Or not..
I don't know.
Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82
shorouq,
can you define: "conservative life style" ?
I guess this sentence sums it up for me:
"You can be conservative in one aspect, and completely open in the other."
That makes everyone conservative. And im not sure i agree with that. I have to think about it some more :/
I am very open with my views and ideas and am willing to take input from almost anyone....but i am guity..guilty...guilty...in only one area...
and it is with religious ppl, if they look 'religious' on the 'outside' i automatically judge them, so a bearded man, one with a short dishsdasha, a woman in a niqab, someone wearing a tent instead of an 3abya..u name it....whatever they say goes in one side and exits the other. I know its wrong. Cant help it. I feel like everything they say is biased towards religon. I dont like that.
Yeah..so thats how conservative i am...
But whats wrong with saying
الله لا يغير علينا
???
Great post btw.
And thanks for the linkage, I have linked yours as well.
DR
hahahaha awwalan i don't blame you. Thenyan, that's called bias. That too is true to us all.
As for this: "You can be conservative in one aspect, and completely open in the other", I don't think it means everyone. But yes it means most of us! Hence the title; how conservative are you; to what degree.
If we were a more developed species, maybe that line would apply to the minority :-)
finally, frequently wishing
الله لا يغير علينا
means we're content with the status quo and resist change with all it's endless possibilities. No?
amer
your site is worth a lot of publicity. thank you :-)
Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
Thanx Phizo :)
Arfana,
When I read your post, it was like reading my mind.
But there's a question lingering in my mind. If we accept change as a natural phase in Human history, will "bad change" (that's realtive) be accepted? a "great" example
idip,
I'm extremely flattered!
loved the link and left a comment lol
as for change,
while not all change is good immediately, it can be good if we apply what we've learned in the change process. No?
I don't know about human history since the limitation there would be the word "apply", but maybe on the personal level?
Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.77
أنا محافظة جداً بغض النظر عن النتائج
وهذا سر استمتاعي بالسكن في كيفان
على فكرة أشرح بكثير من المعادي
انا اعتقد اني محافظ
عموما كما قلتي في ناس محافظين بشي و منفتحين بمجال آخر
يعني حتى المتدينين هم منفتحين بالتعبير عن آرائهم اللي يعتقدون انها صحيحة و ارغام الناس على تقبلها
معنى انا شخصيا متحفظ في ابداء رأيي بهالمواضيع
LOL .. this is my score:
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13
I am there with Ghandi and the Dalai Lama :)) Very interesting ;)
Thanks Fizo :)
Arfana,
I'm not sure if I agree with your definition of "conservative". I might accept somethings or tolerate others but not necessarly apply their bleifs to myself. Does that make me conservative? Let's take social freedom as an example. Let's assume I don't have a problem with having a "boyfriend" as in I would not judge someone as "bad" for having a boyfriend or girlfriend. But I don't have one. Does that make me conservative? The same applies for alcohol, smoking, homosexuality, dresscode .. etc.
In all cases, I agree that no one is conservative in everything. And some "liberals" and I use the term loosely, are more closed minded than many.
ولادة
يا وليه يا مفضوحة لوووول
ماكو أشرح من المعادي
كيفان قبل كانت وناسة...ألحين زحمة وماكو أماكن حق القواري
:-)
مطقوق
إنت محافظ شلون؟ ممكن تشرح لي؟
ولك كامل الحق في "التحفظ" على آراءك الدينية. أولا لأن بياكلون قلبك ويحكمون عليك وغالبا بيحللون دمك. وثانيا لأن الدين بالذات مسألة شخصية وحد له شغل. في فرق بين التحفظ أو حب الخصوصية، والمحافظة
ummel3yal,
you're right. and I never said you should apply their actions. I am saying that conservatives would have a problem with it and judge it like you said, and at the same time, wouldn't do it only because their told (by some authority or influence)that it's not acceptable, without justifying it logically.
You're a Lama?
Wow Interesting. Most of you guys are somehow close, leftest/liberals. We might need someone to conduct a deep study on this. Because most of Liberals who I know and took the test they also fall in the same category. I don't know the reason, but I might say because liberals in Kuwait were orginaly Marxists?! but what have that to do with the current generations?
But easily we can say most of you would vote for Alwasat in the KU or to Democrates in the States?! would that be true?
my results were:
Economic Left/Right: -1.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.05
I have been taken the test almost once every year for the past three years, my results have been shifting gradually from the left to the right .. When I took first time i was -3 and -1.
Back to the Topic Arfana ;)
I would say being conservative is to reject changes. I would also question, is being liberal is the opposite of being conservative? Because in Liberal sociaty conservatives are those who wants to maintain those liberal values in the sociaty and reject any changes!!
I think what you are talking about is being an opend-minded or close-minded! don't you agree? Because we have seen that we have conservative ppl but open-minded and they would accept others and we also have seen liberals who are close-minded and they just want to wipe others!
Being an open-minded is so beautiful!
Fizoooooooo !!
Why am I not surpirsed with your results?!
Since your results represent the "minority" maybe you can explain your ratings. Especially on the Social Libertarian/ Authoritarian scale :))
take one: On Logic
note: "you" does not refer to arfana
arfana u wrote:
"They’re those who use some sort of وازع to defend their arguments. It’s their shield protecting their brains from changing opinions, interests, habits, religion, dress code, and experiences."
so if i have this waazi3 you speak of which, let's say, prohibits me from "experiencing" with drugs, then i am limiting myself and 'my brain'?
if it so happens that my faith has already "told me", if you may, that i am not to "experience" being spaced out .. this faith is dull o '7ada shakhbary'?
what if that experience were to kill somebody?
ethics kick in? 7abakat bas al7een?
what ethics? why should i limit myself to what humanity has agreed upon and deprive me from the thrill of killing someone? how do i know it's what humanity has agreed upon anyway? who decides what ethics is?
why do u get to call it ethics, and call what i have ignorance?
or else, what is it to be "non-conservative" .. i.e. if it were not for the option of the creation of some degree of barrier (aw khal negol buffer zone 3alashan nerid amjaad posts lebnan), then who sets the barrier?
you? why should i listen to your 'being conservative', as you wish to limit yourself, and not listen to myself (based on what i believe in)?
why is it that when i say "i believe", then i somehow "did not think" and "did not question"?
isn't that you yourself claiming the exclusive and exhaustive right to "the truth"?
or else, how come my arrival at a different truth be wrong and "limited", while yours is "thought proviking" o "akher modail"?
arfana u wrote:
"To be conservative is to create even more boundaries between you, and the world!"
let me get this straight, so everything 'the world' has to offer has to be right, or at least tried out?
how come my being confident in what i believe in and the ability to defend myself and my stance be taken to be 'limited', just because there has been someone who just so shares the same 'label' as i do?
why should i be the one who is sent away with a "i dont think you ever questioned what ur mother and father told you", and not be taken seriously? because u cant muster a reply, you get to play that card everytime and i have to think "3endik salfa"?
how is it that i am "an extremist" when i feel insulted when someone sums up my belief in saying it is nothing but "childish mythodology", without giving an account to anything that convinces me as much as what i already believe in did?
i.e. why should i excuse your shortcomings as being 'freedom of expression', when i cannot speak my mind (and heart) because you dont understand, and you judge what i believe in based on things which you want to assign to my belief without investigating first?
-
as'ela laysa laha ajweba, ela chan jam3an el7arbash bainna eb hal majles el6ayib o weda yetla7la7 bel 3ashr elawakher la 3ala wa 3asa yoktab feh kama kotibba fe 7ag ibn Il-Marwaan
Thank you Arfana for confusing my definitions of conservatism and bias! :P
According to what u say i am not a conservative in any sense, but that cannot be right since i am not 100% open minded, i may accept others and their opinions & choices, but that does not mean i will do as they do and think as they do. So am i? Or arent i? Are we talking about being conservative with our views and ideas and not allowing change within ourselves (mentally) OR are we talking about those ppl who during a conversation are adamant and virtually spell out the words "You are wrong, I am right" with everything they say.
You can tell im pretty confused by this, i agree with Fizo and Temetwir and i think u mean
open-minded vs. close-minded
rather than
conservative vs. non-conservative.
This is the point where Ummel3yal will say: "Typical Gemini answer!"
Hehehe bs shasawi, both ur posts have had me thinking in circles, i dont know if its because i read them in the morning and my brain isnt functioning yet or becuz its
YOUR FAULT! :P
As for, الله لا يغير علي, its a nice thing to say if said in the right context, i have never used it or heard it being used except for between close friends and family members, as a means of saying "Allah la yghayir 3alaina...o nitim 3ela galb wa7id" Or it can also be used in saying "Allah la yghayir 3alaina o ydeem ilni3ma"
So yeah...take it back take it back! I like saying it :P
My results:
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.05
(Im different from everyone else!!)
Phizo,
interesting results! but like ummel3yal i'm not surprised :-)
"maintaining liberal values" should not indicate fighting change, but fighting restrictions. Shrayik?
I don't want to attempt to define "liberal" since it has a political background and I'm not sure how to properly define it, specially if we talk about Kuwaiti Liberals (politically) :-)
But yes, i am talking about keeping an open mind. I'm not sure where a conservative (as per the post definition) exhibited an open mind?
temetwir,
the blog is not the same without you. o men tawwal el ghaibat :-)
I have to say yes, if your wazi3 is say religious only, then you are limiting your experiences within "el 7alal". More so, you maybe missing out on the taste of bacon in your salad because it's "7aram".
But...
If you take a decision not to participate in both experiences because they're not healthy, and you love your body too much to let it suffer, then that's a different story right? This is what I meant by "logical rational".
Ethics you say?
Let's put that on hold since it's a HUGE subject and require a multiple series of discussions.
But yes,
question and question and question. Your own logic, your individual favorism, is your local truth. shrayik bel expression?
This local truth doesn't have to be applied to everyone. What works for you doesn't necessarly work for me. As long as you're NOT overriding my "freedom", then we're both clear. If, however, I attack you for, say, praying, then I'm the one who's being conservative not you.
In short, i think holding on to your believes is a great thing, as long as you are convinced (logically), and as long as you don't judge me for having a different set of believes.
wainik ya jam3an? :-)
DR,
that's exactly ummel3yal's point and I agree. You're no required to "apply" actions, because you may have different reasons and circumestances that hold you back from these actions. Not judging others is key, so is having a rational behind your believes. (as explained to temi).
allah la yghayyir 3alaina is cute when used in a "loving" way. What I meant was those who say "why attack the government? allah la yghayyir 3alaina...etc", "why change jobs? alla la yghayyir 3alaina...."
I won't take it back :-p
lol
and yes, interesting results!
Temi & Proletatian,
I am so interested to know your scores :) Mine was a pleasant surprise to me :))
I think you are describing here a fundamentalist who is, in my opinion, far worse than a conservative
A conservative can keep it to him/her self, a fundamentalist cannot…
Great post :)
LOL ,, Proletarian :) Thank God one of my kids got my genes :))
-7.5 is not bad at all !!
Fizo,
Your tentative analysis of the results so far is very interesting. All of you in the "money" business are rating more positive on the Economic Left/Right scale!
I'm thinking of a serious research paper ;)
Ummel3yal, Arfana,
Why arn't you guys surprised? I'm disappointed, I wanted it to be a surprise for you guys :P
Appearanlty I'm the only one who is surprised!!
How do you want me to analyze my rating? I don't know how to do it!
Proleterian,
Dude your results are so communist! I would say its truely represent the perefct communist state, No Authority and No Capital!
I wasnt happy with my results so i did it again and i didnt guess the questions i didnt understand, i looked them up!
My 100% true compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.38
arfana,
you wrote:
"if your wazi3 is say religious only, then you are limiting your experiences within 'el 7alal'".
eh na3am, elwaazi3 deeny ba7t lakenah mn baab el e3tegaad welyageen.. that said, why is it "acceptable" to be 'conservative' in not allowing myself to have sex with a married woman, but it is not so conservative that i do not experience with drugs and alcohol?
how come one is "common courtesy" and the other is "limited" - especially when given the fact that both are forbidden by the same source (relatively speaking and since we're questioning the logic of your argument, say this is the variable R for religion) for different reasons.
is "credibility" of the source relative, then? do you get to question the things you wish were permitted, and not care abt the things that dont flip ur skirt?
enter: elmanhaj/elnamothaj .. versus .. elta6beeg.
a group of people may tell you that 'to be conservative is to not allow women to participate in politics'? 6ayib, why not investigate what "R" those guys are talking about? yemken sej, on their relativity, women should not be allowed to participate.
how come then that "R" is taken to be one, we7na ely tawna 7abayeb o established that there is a subjectivity to the employment of the term?
ela chan you're questioning "menhom elsa7, o ayahomm assa7", yetratab 3ala thalek ekhtelaaf, wa en laa fa enamma:
does this affect the credibility of the source for the prime 2 extreme examples above?
no, and i'd like for everyone to prove me wrong.
you wrote,
"But yes,
question and question and question. Your own logic, your individual favorism, is your local truth".
i did part of that, o 6ab3an i'm still in the process of doing it, and i dont expect (nor do i wish that) this questioning ends - as it is for a large group of ppl who wish to conclude the non-existence of "someone" bas lena mo dash kha6erhom tagabol ilfekra.. anyway, the only thing i can say is that my faith is as if growing an exponential growth due to that questioning .. it is not being undermined, bel 3aks
which is why i raise the question yet again: how is it that my arrival at 'my local truth' methel ma tefathaltay be considered limited, when we are supposedly at a point where we have access to the same abundance of information? if my own logic (non-scientific term here) coincides with what R has to say, why should i then have to go through the process of being called 'lame', and 'restricted' w gairah?
elimam 3ali 3alaih elsalam yegol: فهو إما سب بسب أم عفو عن ذنب
o ma ye7tay akamel lena atwaga3 this sums it up real well
now, what you -arfana- mention of 'allowing your freedom' is a given and i totally agree .. not because it is a constitutional right, as is promoted nowadays, but because, yet again, in my questioning (nonliteral of course), i have come to realize that this is really what my R "roots for"
like i said above: fi shay esma elmanhaj, o fi balwa esemha elta6beeg
wetha tabeen te3arfeen wain Jam3aan, he's out there proving my point if u know what i mean :)
mother dearest,
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.23
not sure what this means.
and i did not find most of the questions to be relative really
مفضوحة!!! ليش يا حافظ
وافتضاحي فيه ما أطيبه
كان ما كان ويدري من درى
Dear Temi, Fizo and DR,
I agree with Temi that the survey is not applicable to our culture thus whatever answers we gave might be more theoretical than a matter of fact. It also asserts an important point that "conservatism" or "open-mindeness" or whatever terminology we agree upon is extremely relative. Who is considered completely open-minded in Kuwait might be considered a fundamentalist in the US and KSA might et7alil damah. So there is no well defined reference point. Add to that the differences in openess in a specific "domain": politics, social issues, economy, religions ... etc.
Having said that, there are specific things that are "limits" or clear cut lines: for example drugs. Drugs, irrespective of your religious or moral point of reference is damaging to the brain, the individual and the society. This is a fact proven scientifically and medically. So there is no room for dispute. Similar to the issue of freedom of taking someone's life or suicide and many others.
Beyond that there is a vast range of differences.
Fizo,
Do you want a public analysis of your results? or by e-mail :))
Proletarian,
Ghandi is boaring ;-p
and no ma t7arrasht eb marx lol
don't be so sensitive/conservative dear :-)
white wings,
maybe... maybe not ;-)
phizo
Do I sense judgement in your tone on Proletarian? ;-)
see why your results aren't so surprising? lol
ummel3yal
la tet7arrishain! khallee conservative phizo b7alah! lol
DR
so are you more content now with the results?
temi,
i had to dedicate an individual reply since you brought up A LOT of points, ya rab akoon capable of discussing them all. Forgive me if I miss something.
You have specified:
elwaazi3 deeny ba7t lakenah mn baab el e3tegaad welyageen
that agrees with what I was saying about being logically convinced. So no dispute there.
The examples you brought up for "common courtesy" and "limited", was already discussed when we talked about stepping into other's rights.
I'm glad the questionning goes on. I believe it should. And I have to say, faith is a completely different story lol it seems replying your comments need a totally new post ;-)
Finally, I just want to make sure you don't take any of the "lables" thrown around in this discussion personally. please :-)
Arfana,
Its not judgement, its true. And I believe he agrees with me? Don't you Proleterian?
Ummel3yal,
E-mail I guess ;)
phizo,
loooool 3indik eyyah :-)
I was kidding anyways
ummel3yal,
I agree that the survey is not culturaly suitable.. amongst other issues. but it's not a terrible indicator.
As for drugs, scientific research says Maryjuana isn't as distructive as you have mentioned in a matter of fact manner :-) But then the next day they say it is, so... God knows lol
Plus, Caffiene, nicotine, paracetemol... these are all drugs and most of us one or more of them. Hence the room for dispute and the requests for legalization :-p
Then you have the "take another life" example. Is abortion considered taking someone's life? or is it not? if it is, is it still ok?
hey ... another room for dispute :-p
Arfana,
All chemicals alter the brain, meds included. This is why they work. The point is terminal damange. Recreational drugs (and alcohol) cause permenant damage. They KILL brain cells (not just synopses). Those who use any (Maryjuana included) lose chuncks of their memories and face long term permenant damage. This is a FACT. Now using Maryjuana for medical reasons or legistaling Heroin to reduce HIV infections are cases where some thought that the banifits exceed the damage.
Abortion is a matter of difinition. Again, no one disputes the harm or limits on aborting 5 months fetus because everybody agrees that a 5 month fetus is a living human. Unless justified for medical or social reasons, it is KILLING.
The dispute is whether a 2 months old or younger fetus is considered a living soul. And this is the same controversy surrounding stem cell research. So till science can resolve the issue of the beginning of "life" the dispute remains. But the principle will stay the same.
Fizo,
Please try to answer the few questions I raised in my post on "love". This will help in completing your profile :))
Che
Beautiful nickname! I'm all for!
Ummel3yal
That's my point thank you. Always room for dispute ;-)
o 3aib 3aib 3aib u advertise in other people's posts :-ppppppp
lol
Hmmmmm 3aib and openness in the same post !! Wain Temi 3nich ;)
Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.92
LOL, me and Ghandi?
Will be coming back for a comment :)
Che,
Take me with you!! I heard they have nice beaches in Bloevia :P
AyyA .. I'm suprised! -2.92 doesn't sound like you ;)
what about inside every human being ? the hidden character ?
عيدكم مبارك وعساكم من عواده
AyyA,
I'm waiting...
Phizo,
Hey I wanna go too :-(
Fuzz,
عساك من عايدينه
وصح في ناس شكلهم محافظين ومن داخل بالعكس تماما. تهقى هذا اهو ال
double standards?
3idich embarak hon ;*
ummel3yal,
fragah 3eeeeeeeeeeeed ;-*
عيدكم مبارك و عساكم من عوادة و تقبل الله اعمالكم
ma6goog,
wenta bkhair baba. e7na el 3eed bukra :-p
I guess every one of us has some degree of conservativeness, the problem is when the list becomes bigger and bigger and the circle around us gets smaller. Not only that but even the list is subject to change with time.
Very nice topic, and happy Eid
Ummel3yal
See, I’m not as socially liberated as I thought ☺
عيدك مبارك , وتقبل الله طاعتك .
من العايدين الفايزين أن شاء الله .
happy and prosperous Eid darling
الانسان يسوى عملية مقارنة للاقتناع بين ما تلقاه من مبادئ سواء دين عادات تقاليد اى شئ لقاه فى حياته
ومع اللى لمايراجع نفسه ويفكر اذا كان فعلا صح او غلط
القران يا ست قرفانة
ما فيه مراجعة ولا فيه كلام فوق وتحت
فيه تفكير واقتناع
يعنى فيه حكم افكر ليش هالحكم موجود ؟
ليش رمضان شهر مو شهرين ؟
وايد تساؤلات والانسان العاقل اللى ينجح بعمل المقارنة الصحيحة ليصل لنتيجة
لان اذا الواحد مو مقتنع بدينه يكون انسان ضعيف
AyyA
what can I say? great brains ...:-)
bazoon
da3wity fel 3eed rmithan el yay ma yzeed 3an 10 days :-)
whity
agma3een ya 7agga
anon
المهم الاقتناع عن تفكير صح؟
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